New Engine Technology from Vanguard
Tags : ferris-landing |Archer: From Messick's here with Bob from Vanguard, from the Briggs and Stratton group. The gentleman here has been doing some training with a bunch of technicians here at our store recently, and they travel around with this large trailer. What is the purpose of this trailer?
Bob: Well, Archer, this is one of four trailers that we have, actually one of five, and we go to events at dealers, distributors and we show some of the products that we have. We do some training and we explain what the features are of some of our products.
Archer: We're going to spend some time walking around the trailer here, looking at the insides of some engines, talking about how they work, and also some of the technology that's coming into this stuff. You might assume that small engines are a pretty established thing by this point, but it's interesting looking around here the amount of things that they've been changing and working on. Join us here this morning, maybe we'll teach you a little bit about Vanguard Engines.
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Singers: Messick's, a helping hand with your land.
Archer: This is the engine on my personal mower, actually. This is the 40-horse EFI. What can you tell me about the oil guard system?
Bob: Well, the oil guard system is based on a dry sump system similar to race cars. It's putting a minimal amount of oil in the bottom of the engine to make it run efficiently. Then it's pumping the oil back out into this reservoir here. Reservoir starts, the oil comes in, it has an automotive-style filter, so you have more capacity to catch the dirt. Then it works its way down through this aluminum five-quart reservoir.
Aluminum has cooling capacities, so as it works its way down through here, it's cooling about 30 to 40 degrees, then it's reinserted back. The cool keeping heat out of the engine is giving the engine better health, and the five quarts, six quart total gives you the longevity of a 500-hour oil change saving on cost of ownership, less downtime. It's a great option.
Archer: That extended oil change is an interesting thing to think about because so many of the people who are buying this equipment, when they're commercial, put on huge amounts of hours and can hit those intervals really quickly, but even a lot of residential people too, is it okay to do every two years, three years [unintelligible 00:02:06]?
Bob: We probably recommend that you do it probably once a season. Typically, you're not going to get 500 hours out of other fluids that are in your engine, so once a season is usually good to do it.
Archer: [unintelligible 00:02:18], when you drop fluids, you drop everything.
Bob: Yes.
Archer: You could see that would be the connection for oil guard down there at the bottom. That's a sensor?
Bob: No, no, there's just-
Archer: Pump sensor?
Bob: -two pumps, and then one is a drain. One is an evalve. This is actually, and you might be one to swear in here, this is actually the bottom of the engine. You see there's two separate pumps here because there's one that's inserting the oil and there's one that's sucking it back out. It's a unique sump that's in it plus it's a dry sum system, so non interchangeable with a nonoil guard unit.
All of the current system has an O2 sensor in it. O2 sensors are liable to breakage. They're very expensive to replace and all, but they give very important data to how the engine is running and how it puts the mix together to make it run efficiently. Over the years, we've been able to track that data and we're able to program a computer to be able to do it so we're going to open loop effective, actually, we're in process now. A lot of Ferris machines have open-loop systems on it.
Archer: Oil guard is something we've seen for a long time. Now, this is a smaller version of it?
Bob: Same general idea. It's called the oil extend. It's not a unique system where in the oil guards, you have a dry sum system. This is not unique in any way to that. It is a different something, a normal engine, just so that this unit attaches to its side of it, but it's a simple system that includes a automotive style filter similar to what's in the regular oil guard system, easy to change it, and easy to maintain it, easy to do oil changes. The extra half a quart oil that's in there, plus the fact of the same idea of taking the oil out of the engine and cooling it, putting it back in, add that to some of the new features on the CXI engine, heavy duty cam, high inertia flywheel.
We have an engine that we're pushing out to be a 250-hour maintenance engine. Downtime is something that guys don't want to have, but they still want their engine to perform properly, so this gives them the ability to keep guys out and make more money.
Archer: Really compact version of that system. This then, you talk about cooling. This is metal from down here coming up and you're-
Bob: It's all coming up--
Archer: -you're running oil up through that loop and it cools going through all that. This feels great just in terms of being solid. Cool.
Bob: Some of the maintenance things, if it's easy, it's quick access, guys are going to do it more often.
Archer: Yes, yes. Would you do this without changing the oil in the engine?
Bob: I guess you could. Typically, we like to recommend that you do all the maintenance together with it, but the fact that it's a 250-hour maintenance engine, so no air filter, no spark plug, no nothing else for 250 hours. It's in for one thing, you do them all.
Archer: The transport guard here is something I haven't heard of before. Give me a quick rundown on that. When I move this over to stop, what is happening?
Bob: It's a one-time switch that's shutting off three of your critical systems. It's shutting down your throttle, which is something that's key to do with an engine, because an engine, if you don't shut it down right, it leaves gas and it starts funny, I'll put it that way. It's shutting down your throttle, your ignition, and your fuel. Basically, it's containing your fuel and your oil into where they're supposed to be so they're not bouncing around as you're transporting the machine, obviously called transport guard so that they're not mixing and they're not fouling your engine.
Because of the way that these are modules, we put them together to make a battery. Actually, we can customize the shape and size of a battery package, like in this case, to fit into an application. Obviously, the less unique it is, the more [unintelligible 00:06:10] it's like this.
Archer: Internally.
Bob: It's a cost savings because we can mass make a size like this instead of customizing this, but in that case, Club Car buys, they're our biggest customer so we have a specific setup for them. We've actually changed the interior that, the interior of that to give them more power.
Archer: There's five different systems here in total ranging from one and a half kilowatt-hour, three and a half, seven, another seven--
Bob: There's sevens. Yes, you got a line-
Archer: 10.
Bob: -here in 10.
Archer: As far as application goes at this point, you said this is like your golf cart-type setup.
Bob: Yes.
Archer: The big one, what is that running in at this point?
Bob: Currently, we don't have an application we run this in. It's large in size to provide the power. It has to do with the weight and balance of a machine. It's not that something doesn't need this kind of power, but piggybacking several of these batteries together gives it more balance on the machine, so you'll see that on the Ferris machines this year that we have two seven Ks. Instead of throwing one of these in this together, we're balancing out the weight. That's the key to all this, it's balance and weight with these applications are pretty heavy. The 10 KW is a little over 200 pounds.
Archer: Then like a three and a half or one and a half, what kind of equipment are you running when you start getting that small?
Bob: You're going to see the Ferris 300E, which you're going to be carrying this year, is going to have two of these three and a halfs in it. Again, they're sitting in the back side by side. The swappable battery, which is a new introduction this year, it has a lot of applications that we're seeing in the construction industry. Typically, I think of machines that are big but may not have big power requirements. Like a trow, they're very big. You don't have to drag that into your shop. You just pull the battery out, it's about 25 pounds and it has a charger simpler to your little handheld batteries. Just drop it in.
You can piggyback multiples of those things, but the other key thing is you can own a couple of them and just like with your handheld tools, you can just put a battery and charger, take one out, and get going again. Ferris has production for 25, I believe on their FW15 is going to have a swappable battery.
Archer: Then looking at the insides of the guts of this. Really, am I right to look at the inside of this? This is my world here. [laughs[
Bob: No go ahead.
Archer: The electronic stuff, the battery [unintelligible 00:08:44]?
Bob: I'm letting you draft the questions. I can talk all day about that.
Archer: You are looking in this side, it looks like there's individual modules that are four cells wide by what, eight cells this way?
Bob: Yes. I believe it's about 32 cells as a module. There's about 16 modules in this battery as a specific unit.
Archer: 32 cells at like one, well, lithium ions are three something, three volts each.
Bob: These ones here, we have these battery sizes, we've created a better, stronger battery. When this was created, this was a 5KW battery. We're now able to make this a 7KW battery without increasing the size of the physical battery.
Archer: Just by buying better cells.
Bob: Just by creating a better cell, yes.
Archer: Then all of those individual modules internally are tied together. You can see the battery cables on the risers in there between the different layers.
Bob: Fusible links link all of them. Everything's linked back to the computer system. There's a unique battery management software system that's created for every application. For safety purposes, if it's reading one of the modules and it's outside the normal operating parameters, it'll shut down that module for safety purposes, and then it'll send an error code through our diagnostic tool that you have a bad cell.
Archer: We can actually shut off a individual cluster of cells.
Bob: Yes. The battery does not need to be shut down.
Archer: [unintelligible 00:10:03] continue running?
Bob: Yes, yes. Then you can see some of the other safety features in here. There's a spacing, although it doesn't look like it's big between the cells, and also there's a quarter-inch plate between each layer. Basically, if for some reason, and probably the biggest hazard would be somebody putting a forklift through it, where you're penetrating and that's where you're going to have problems happen. It's set up to not have a complete expansion of a problem. You could hit a cell and it wouldn't expand to the whole battery with the safety features built into it.
Archer: The current from all those cells dumps down into these relays here at the end and then those are what actually comes out to your output terminals. Then that pin connector then it'd be what a balanced charger for--
Bob: That pin connector actually as far as a diagnostic tool. The same diagnostic tool you use for our engines is what you'd use for a battery, it uses a different cable though. It's one diagnostic tool which is great for a shop. They don't have to have [unintelligible 00:11:05].
Archer: Another software, or another laptop, another set of cables. How do you charge? You charge through the output port?
Bob: Yes. Charging can be done in multiple ways. Our chargers are mounted here. Currently this trailer, I have a dual alternative system, so I can charge through my truck. You can charge through a port off your shop or you can use the generator, I have a generator that I can charge it with also. It's an easy charge. They are dedicated battery chargers for it. You can't just throw any charger into it yet, you'd have to have a specific one for the system. It charges pretty well and with improvements in it, we're able to charge a little bit faster. Still, with batteries, the faster you charge them, it creates heat and degrades the battery. You have to be careful on how fast you charge a battery.
Archer: That's an interesting point. In terms of cooling of the pack then, this is all basically, you're relying on the metal enclosures and stuff. It's not actively cooled at all?
Bob: No. Now it's similar if you think about a combustion engine that there's no cooling actually on an air-cooled engine. It's just all the current in there but there's safety features built into it that if it goes above a certain temperature that's not going to operate-
Archer: [unintelligible 00:12:20].
Bob: -similar to a combustion engine.
Archer: There's a surprising amount of steel in that really [inaudible 00:12:26].
Bob: Yes. That steel is definitely there for safety. There's a lot of improvements coming and there's a lot of changes. We love to work with different OEMs to create applications for them.
Archer: The building box of equipment, is that correct?
Bob: Yes. I think battery has its place, especially in the construction industry, you're working inside a building, you can't use a combustion engine. That's where the battery is really dominating the market right now. Typically, outdoor power equipment is outdoor. We're not seeing the drive for that right now. Cost can be a little bit on the higher side but as we create more batteries and there's more demand for it, it's going to bring the price down.
Archer: It's cool, from our perspective, to be able to see building blocks of this stuff offered by you guys that goes into a lot of different equipment because then, we can work on all that equipment with common connectors and common technologies and that kind of stuff versus everybody rolling their own.
Bob: Currently, we're constructing our own controllers and chargers and everything. What we're going to do is that if a company comes to us and wants a battery solution, we can offer them the complete solution. They don't have to go outside for other motors or anything. These are firmly tested. We drop them, we submerge them in water, we take pressure washers and we pressure wash the crap out of them to make sure that no moisture gets in them, that they're completely safe. That's a big concern in the market with lifting right now. This was an older setup. This is the way they used to with a cage around them. All of the batteries are set up in a setup like this.
Archer: In a metal enclosure like that?
Bob: Yes. A lot of questions that come about reliability and what do we do with them, more lithium in the landfill is what a lot of people say. Right now, on the fixed batteries which is this, it's got 2,000 charge cycles. We're figuring that to be a lifespan of about seven to 10 years. I'll be honest with you, in seven to 10 years, you're probably going to buy a new piece of equipment because before you're going to want to buy a battery. If it's determined that one of the cells is bad through our diagnostic tool, Briggs & Stratton will take the battery back and just replace it for the first couple of years, we haven't determined a program yet.
We will have a certified battery technician program in the near future where we will have people certified to work on the battery. We will take it back, we repair it, and then we have a secondary market that we sell it to so they don't become junk just because they need to be repaired. Then ultimately, if the battery gets run over by a forklift or something, we take all the lithium out, we recycle everything in and very little, this will ever go to the landfill.
That's a question I try to educate our salespeople about that stuff because it's an expensive product but people that come in and are interested, they are interested in the environment, "Well, why am I using a battery?" "It's the environment."
Archer: You're early adopters that are into those details.
Bob: I want people to understand because they'll say simple comments like that, like, "Another battery in the landfill." I like to educate people because they understand that everything is in our thoughts.
Archer: Sure. Well, that stuff's starting to come around. There's enough volume of the stuff out there in cars and that kind of stuff that there's [unintelligible 00:15:54].
Bob: Obviously, there's people out there that are going to take advantage of it, that they're going to be lithium recyclers. Until we can change off of lithium, there's going to be people out there that are going to benefit from that.
Archer: Is the feeling at this point that these kinds of products were a pipe dream a couple of years ago? Is this reaching maturity now that--
Bob: The technology, I believe I'd say is mature enough, it's adoption of the product line. It's a cost of the product line. We talked about weight and balance of a machine. That's a big concern too.
Archer: It's cool to see it coming out in commercial products where, "Okay, let's not just make something that we can sell in a box store at a low dollar value that might appeal to someone." It's like, "Let's make quality equipment."
Bob: Yes. That's our angle of it. Safety and quality. If you go to a high-level meeting about our battery system, they'll spend an hour and talk to you about safety and how we construct this before we even talk to you about the operations of a battery.
Archer: What is the pivot like for a company like Briggs & Stratton that has always made small engines now to pivot into something like this?
Bob: It's [unintelligible 00:17:01]--
Archer: Is it a radically different business model or is there a crossover between--
Bob: We believe that it's a crossover because it's something that it's powering equipment which is what we do. Battery is going to fall into place with that. I don't believe that gas is ever going to go away, combustion engines won't, at least not in the near future, to be able to create the power that a 40-horse does without having a battery that's the size of this trail. There's going to be a crossover to it and then there's going to probably be a balance, at some point, between having battery stuff like the handheld market and going over to what is powering your [unintelligible 00:17:42] turns.
Archer: Production-wise, you guys build these engines wear.
Bob: All of our big block engines are built in Auburn, Alabama. All of our small block engines are made in Statesboro, Georgia and our batteries are made in Tucker, Georgia. They're all American-made.
Archer: That's interesting.
Bob: Yes, yes. There's a few small products that are made oversea,s in our Briggs & Stratton factories overseas.
Archer: The idea of sourcing parts, running manufacturing lines, and all that kind of stuff that you guys would do with engines just naturally carries into a different product, really?
Bob: Yes. We have a specific plant that just does battery only.
Archer: Bob, appreciate it.
Bob: Hey, thank you very much for having us this week. It's been an exciting week here. You have a great facility.
Archer: Appreciate it. Definitely cool to be able to see products that we're all so used to seeing. Sometimes it's easy to assume that the innovation's done but that's clearly not the case. It's awesome to see how-
Bob: No, It's continuing on.
Archer: -things keep marching forward. Shop for any equipment and we can help. If you have parts and service needs for a machine you've already got, give us a call at Memex. We're available at 802-223-373 or online at memex.com.
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